Did God Cause the Fall of Man? A Response to Arminian Today Part 4

This is the 4th and final installment of a series of posts. I encourage you to go read parts 1, 2, and 3 as well as Arminian Today's article, "Did God Cause the Fall of Man."

In the final paragraph of his post Roy writes:

To me it is not a question of sovereignty as much as it is a question of God's love. If God truly loved humanity why would he want to grant by his own sovereign choice that Adam would Fall and that this would plummet mankind into a horrible existence marked by death, destruction, and decay?

This is a fair question that does need to be addressed by myself and others who hold my position that God predestined the fall of man. The question in my own words is, "how can a John 3:16 God predestine such a catastrophic event that would hurt so many people?" Let's look at how the Bible defines the love of God.

As I have written in the past, I do not believe that Calvinists can simply replace the word "world" that appears in John 3:16 with the word "elect." It seems to me that a natural reading of the text indicates a love of God for the world. However, I am troubled at the emphasis that the word "world" gets from so many people when discussing such a Christ centered verse. In light of the context it seems best to understand John 3:16 as a wonderful description of God's willingness to save people from such an evil world. Because the verses that follow 3:16 explicitly disallow for a universal understanding of salvation we must realize the difference between God's love for the world in a general sense and His love for those whom He has chosen to save.

It was important for me to go through all of that to make the distinction between God's love for the world and His love for the elect because I think we can clearly see how God's love fits perfectly with predestining the fall of man.

Here are 5 verses that show the greatness of God's love and the necessity of the fall for that love to be demonstrated:
Red= God's loving purpose.
Bold= Necessary consequence of the fall of man.

"Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you." (John 15:13-14)

"Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline..." (Revelation 3:19)

"In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." (1 John 4:10)

"I have loved you,' says the LORD. But you say, 'How have you loved us?' 'Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?' declares the LORD. 'Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated." (Malachi 1:2-3)

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27)

"For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:6-8)

Just to recap. God's love is shown in:
Death.
Reproof and discipline (which doesn't happen without sin).
Loving people who don't love Him.
In contrast to those whom He does not love.
Removing wrath that was meant for sinners (that's what propitiation does).
The Church (the church is a called out assembly of believers in Christ).
Sanctification and cleansing (which doesn't happen to perfect people).
Our Weakness.
Our Ungodliness.
Our Sinfulness.

When we allow God to speak for Himself through the Scriptures it is clear how His love is best demonstrated. I am willing to accept the Arminian claim that they do not hold to their views because of free-will but, rather, because of their understanding of the love of God. However, I disagree that the Arminian understanding of God's love is the correct understanding. The Bible displays God's saving love as amazing for 3 reasons: (1) it is a love for such vile sinners, (2) it is a particular love for those whom He chose to love, and (3) it is a love with an infinite cost, namely, the death of the Son of God.


I think it is good for people to engage in civil debate from time to time. Roy and I would disagree on this subject whether I wrote a response to his post or not so I didn't think it would hurt to voice my disagreement. If you have questions or comments (whether positive or negative) I would love it if you would post them in the comment section.

Grace and Peace,
Stephen

So Shall Your God Rejoice Over You

Some thoughts from James Smith. I thought this was great.

"As the bridegroom rejoices over his bride--so shall your God rejoice over you!" Isaiah 62:5

That God should save a sinner at all--is a surprising display of unmerited grace! But that He should bring that sinner into the closest possible relation to Himself, and rejoice over him--is indeed most astonishing! And yet it is most true! For our Maker becomes our Husband! And as the bridegroom rejoices over his bride--so our God rejoices over us!

He set His heart upon us!

He encircled us with His infinite love!

He determined to raise us to His glorious throne!

He purposed to make us one with Himself!

He sent His only begotten Son to redeem us!

He sent His Holy Spirit to regenerate us!

He intends to raise us from the dead, perfect in holiness, and robed with immortality!

He will present us before His glorious presence with exceeding joy!

"He will rejoice over us with singing!" What exquisite joy will this impart! Jehovah singing with joy over His ransomed and restored creatures, as though their salvation could increase or perfect His happiness!

Let us meditate on this glorious fact, and prepare for the stupendous event!

"Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!" Revelation 19:9

"Come, I will show you the bride--the wife of the Lamb!" Revelation 21:9

God is Love

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent His only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
--1 John 4:7-9


God is love, and He has poured out His love upon the world in an amazing way. The Gospel shows us that God's love for the world is so strong that He came and died for the sins of the world! Sacrificial love is what brought deadness into life. And now (it should be no surprise) our perfect Father calls His children to be imitators of Him. His desire is that we walk in love (Ephesians 5:1-2). We are liberated so that we can be copy cats of God. We are given new life so that we can love. We are graced with freedom so that we can lay down our lives for our brothers. God calls His family to operate in a framework where love is our constant, consuming, joyous pursuit. We are called by God to love in such a way that baffles those who are not in Christ. Yes, they ought to know that we are Christians not by how smart we are, not by how well we can argue, not by how sinfully judgmental we are, but by our love!

Does this mean that we should love those that we disagree with?


Yes.


What if they are Christians but they don't line up with our theology like we think they should? Should we look down upon them? Should we mock their beliefs or interpretations of the Scriptures? Should we make their ideas or their concerns the butt of our jokes? Do we spend more time trying to defend our particular denomination or branch of theology than we do trying to creatively and affectionately serve our brothers and sisters? If so...why? Who are we really helping?


I believe that love ought to be the defining motive and mark in all of our interactions with those in the family of God. I think that friendly, helpful, and passionate debate is a wonderful thing; but if done without love, what is it really being done for? In 1 Corinthians chapter 13 we see some amazing thoughts. Paul writes to the believers in Corinth that if someone has prophetic powers, understands all mysteries, has all knowledge, or has a mountain-moving faith, but doesn't have love, that person is nothing. This is crazy! If you win the debate, but you don't have love, you are nothing. If you understand everything there is to ponder but you don't have love...you are nothing! It goes on to say that even if we give up everything to the point of giving up our body to be burned but don't have love, we are nothing. Romans chapter 12 also tells us that our love should be genuine as we seek to pour out brotherly affection. In fact we are instructed to "outdo one another in showing honor"!


In the book of Colossians we also see a huge emphasis on loving others. It commands the chosen ones of God to put on compassion, kindness, humility, meekness and patience. Paul continues on to say, "Above all these put on love which binds everything together in perfect harmony" (Colossians 3). Love for the family of God is absolutely not a side issue in the Christian life. Any theology that fails to put love front and center ought to be abandoned for the truth of God's Word. This is not some sort of thought that is trying to diminish the necessity or the importance of sound doctrine, rather, it is a sort of thought that is trying to flesh out the precious doctrines of the Bible into day-to-day living! I have heard it said, and I believe rightly, that "love is truth with legs on it". Biblical theology rightly understood ought to result in a greater love for our brothers and sisters in Christ.


These are not easy commands or concepts, but God continually shows His love towards repenters in forgiveness when we fail. I am so thankful that He continues to forgive when I don't love how I ought to. May it be our prayer that He strengthens us with supernatural love so that we might pursue this privilege and command to love all the more. What a beautiful way of living the Lord calls His children to.

The Best of Men Are Men at Best

Yesterday I visited a very nice Presbyterian church (myself being a Baptist). I've only visited two Presbyterian churches in my life (that I can recall) and I always love it. If it weren't for the paedo baptism issue I probably would have joined a Presbyterian church by now (since I visited one before I visited my current church whom I love).

One interesting thing about Presbyterian churches is the way they follow their tradition. Whereas some more litergical denominations hold to traditions in their form of worship and others (like my denomination) hold to traditions as they evolve over time, Presbyterians refer back to certain documents written by some of the wisest men of biblical history. That is why it was interesting to me when the pastor brought up a glaring weakness in the go-to document (outside of Scripture) for reformed Christians- especially Presbyterians, the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

In the question #4 of the Catechism we read:

4. What is God?

A. God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth.

The glaring weakness in this is not what it says, these are all true things. But it is the attribute that is left out, namely, love. I have written several posts on the love of God in the past, as have my friends here on the Grace and Peace blog, so instead of addressing that topic I want to look at what I learned simply from the ethos of the pastor.

How much do we love our traditions more than we love the truth? Or to put it another way, how much do we treat tradition as equal to the truth? This issue can take many forms. Sometimes it comes in the form of "I don't know where but I know somewhere the Bible says..." and instead of knowing the Scripture and applying it to our lives we usurp its authority in order to say what we think. Other times it can come in the form of gripping our views tightly in the face of what we see taught in Scripture. Still other times we think it's wrong to question the great men of the faith for whom we have great respect. We might say "if that's what Spurgeon taught, who am I to question it?"

We must remember that "All Scripture is breathed out by God" (2 Tim. 3:16) and any tradition that doesn't root itself in that Scripture will be flawed in some way. Does that mean that no tradition is good? Can we learn anything outside of the Bible? Of course we can. But we must be willing to critique our traditions according to Scripture. If we don't do that we will never be able to correct the blindspots in our doctrine or in our lives.

Grace and Peace,
Stephen

How Much Does God Love His Children?

If you belong to Jesus Christ, he is speaking of you; for says he, “I know
my sheep”. “I know them”; what does that mean? Why, he knows their number, he
knows their names, he knows every one for whom he died; and if there were to be
one missing for whom Christ died, God the Father would send him down again from
heaven to fetch him. -George Whitfield

Love of Every Love the Best

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-- by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. --Ephesians 2:1-10


O the Deep, Deep, Love of Jesus

O the deep, deep love of Jesus, vast, unmeasured, boundless, free!
Rolling as a mighty ocean in its fullness over me!
Underneath me, all around me, is the current of Thy love
Leading onward, leading homeward to Thy glorious rest above!


O the deep, deep love of Jesus, spread His praise from shore to shore!
How He loveth, ever loveth, changeth never, nevermore!
How He watches o’er His loved ones, died to call them all His own;
How for them He intercedeth, watcheth o’er them from the throne!


O the deep, deep love of Jesus, love of every love the best!
’Tis an ocean full of blessing, ’tis a haven giving rest!
O the deep, deep love of Jesus, ’tis a heaven of heavens to me;
And it lifts me up to glory, for it lifts me up to Thee!

--S. Trevor Francis

Text book over thinker

I am a text book overthinker and it plays out in my life at different times. A few days ago i realized it is in my love for God. Sometimes i get so wrapped up in life and trying to live for God that i forget to love Him and be in love with Him in the process. I liken it to marriage...it is easy to get too focued on bills and family and work and all the other little things that have to get done around the house that i forget to think about my love for jonathan. Now do i still love him, of course, but my affections aren't as tender and im not as gracious when i get so focused on the other things and i find myself missing him even though i get to see him everyday. I don't want to engage my husband on a conversation about bills, i want to know whats going on with his life and how hes growing.

The same thing happens with me and my relationship with God, i get so wrapped up in other things that are great things, even Godly things, but i forget to be in love with God. And if this being in love with God fails then i have a big problem because then everything i do becomes works and legalistic and heavy.

Our lives should be lived out to the glory of God, this only happens when love Him ( with love that he gave us in the first place ) and when we enjoy Him.

Grace and Peace
Sarah b.

Love

In the past few days, I realized that God has been constantly bringing the certain subject of love up over the holidays. As I look back, it is really cool, because I can see times where God was trying to show me what it really means to love.

I had the opportunity to attend Chris and Anna Kay's wedding last monday, and Douglas and Cammie Allison's last month. Tim Senn performed both ceremony's and he used it as a time to share the gospel in a unique way.

First, Tim described the duties of the Christian husband and wife. Here are a few attributes of each: A husband is to forsake all others. He is supposed to be the protector and, while he should lead and make decisions, listen to the advice of his wife. A wife is supposed to honor her husband by submitting to his authority. She is to only intoxicate her husband and no other.

Ephesians 5:23-24 - "For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands."

God used this example (the love between husband and wife) as a representation of Christ's love for the church. This love isn't a romantic giddiness, but rather the devoted love that a husband has for his wife. Relationships aren't always perfect. Love isn't just a feeling. If it was there would be very few married people left.

Love, rather, is forsaking your own desires in order to put another's desires or needs first. I'm not married so I don't know from experience the intensity of that kind of love, but I am getting a better idea of love day by day.

I am currently reading a book called "Relationships" written by Tim Lane and Paul Tripp. The book starts by giving examples of the difficulties of relationships. Basically two people both wanting their own way, but it seems fair in their own eyes. They take this and run, showing the reader everything that is wrong on their side of the relationship. But instead of it being an extremely depressing book by only showing you all your failures, it encourages you with the sacrifices Christ made for us and the love that he showed us.

These things made me stop and think, first, about the sacrifice made and love shown by Christ to me, and, second, my love for Christ and others around me. It's overwhelming when you think about the love Christ has shown. His love and grace is our salvation! His love is unconditional. No matter how bad we mess up, he still loves us. And I don't love nearly as well as I should, but I thank God for his mercy and I use his example as fuel for my struggle to love as he did and does.

Thank you, Jesus, for the love and grace that you showed on the cross. I pray that you would help me to love others, even when they hurt and wrong me, as you loved me, a wretched sinner, who spit and mocked you. And may the glory of any love that comes from me by given to you, who made salvation possible. Amen.

Why a Physical Death?

As my pastor taught a Sunday evening lesson on Christ as mediator I was confronted once again with the amazing truth that Christ's physical suffering and death was not nearly as significant as the fact that the wrath of God was being poured out on him. That is not to take away from what is presented in the gospel accounts. It is, however, to say that Christ did not ask His Father to keep him from suffering in the hands of the Romans. He asked that if it was the will of the Father that He would not empty out the cup of His wrath on him.

So why do we read of such horrendous physical suffering? The list of reasons is much bigger than my library can explain. But as I thought through some of the things that happened at the cross and why they happened the way they happened I thought it would be helpful to post it for you folks and allow you the opportunity to marvel at just a small list of things you were meant to see at the cross.


He was mocked and despised to display the shame of my sin. (Isaiah 53:3-4)

He carried his cross to Golgotha (outside the city of Jerusalem) because my sin defiles the camp of God. (Leviticus 16:21-22)

Nails were driven through his hands to give me a picture of the record of my sins being put away by God, through Christ. (Colossians 2:14)

He was killed show me the severe penalty for sin. (Romans 6:23)

He willingly died to demonstrate the love of God for His people. (Romans 5:8)

He died for me that I might know how to love my brothers and my wife. (1 John 3:16, Ephesians 5:25)

So that's my list. What did I miss?

Grace and Peace,
Stephen

Heaven is Filling with Earth's Broken Lives

Here are some helpful and encouraging thoughts from J.R. Miller on these amazing verses and God's amazing love.


"This man welcomes sinners--and eats with them!" -Luke 15:2


"I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you!" - Matthew 21:31


"Christ is building His kingdom with earth's broken things. Men want only the strong, the successful, the victorious, the unbroken--in building their kingdoms. But God is the God of the broken, the unsuccessful, of those who have failed.


Heaven is filling with earth's broken lives, and there is no 'bruised reed' which Christ cannot take and restore to glorious blessedness and beauty.


He can take the life crushed by pain or sorrow--and make it into a harp whose music shall be all praise. He can lift earth's saddest failure--up to heaven's glory!"

Love the Lord your God

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.

-Mark 12:30

So much could be said concerning this verse and others like it; but a simple question is this: do I love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength? Is my desire that everything I do be done in the name of the Lord Jesus (Colossians 3:12)? This ties in closely with 1 Corinthians 10:31, which says, “So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God”.

As children of God, we are a people who have been redeemed. We are not our own, for we have been bought with a price (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). Our hearts are now God’s. Our souls now belong to the Lord. Our minds are now His possession. Our strength is now for His purposes. All of who we are is now to be used by our Maker for His glory.

We are to present all of our desires, affections, imagination, and might in love to the One who has loved us from eternity past. Our worship is to submit all of who we are to the service of the King to be used for His glory. This is only done through the power and love that He bestows upon us.

If only we could fully understand the beauty of this!

If only we could fully understand the joy and freedom of this!

Praise be to God that He offers forgiveness for when we foolishly lose sight of how worthy and wonderful He is. I am so quick to set my affections and my joy too heavily upon lesser things! I am so quick to lose focus on the highest of joys: our Savior! It is, sadly, too easy to let my mind wander into worthless pursuits. I am so quick to pour my strength and passion into that which is not of the Lord.

God has demonstrated a love beyond measure to us; how could we not strive to give Him all that we are? The Father sent his only Son to die and rise again so that we could be forgiven. How could we not willingly and freely give ourselves to Him in love?

Love and Wrath

Exodus 34: 6."The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, 'The Lord, The Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfullness'". Isaiah 5:25. "Therefore the anger of the Lord was kindled against his people, and he stretched out his had against them and struck them, and the mountains quaked; and their corpses were as refuse in the midst of the streets. For all his anger has not turned away, and his hand is stretched out still." Before i start out i would like to mention that both of these texts were in the midst of events happening in the Old Testament. I am using them today not as a part of the stories that they are in, but more so as examples to point out, the love and wrath of God.


To put it simply, the love and wrath of God go together, you can't have one without the other. If you take away the wrath of God then you have watered down christianity, and if you take away the love of God i don't think may people would want to be christians. it is more common to have the idea that God is all love and He couldn't possibly have wrath as an attribute. If that were the case, it would look like this: God is ok with sin, and feels no need to rebuke sin, and ultimately that God is no God at all. Why? because God can't be ok with sin. If we think this, then we have a distorted view of God...righteousness can't have any dealings with unrighteousness. It isn't possible for a Holy and Righteous God to have any part with sin. So now heres a dilema...


We are by nature sinners and deserving of Gods wrath! oh my goodness what are we going to do? Nothing. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves. So the story gets a little depressing at this point because we can' t do anything to make God change His mind about our sinful state and we certainly can't will Him to take away His wrath. But He can do something. He can satisfy His Wrath, by giving us his Son as a sacrifice, thus by giving us this sacrifice we are introduced to God's Love. Romans 8:3 "By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." So Christ, who knew no sin, became sin for us, so that we might be saved. Jesus satisfied the wrath of God by taking on man's sin. and Gods love is shown by giving us Christ as our covering.


and hence the love and wrath of God.